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by subville @ Friday, 09. May, 2008 - 12:50:47 pm

It isn't about having 'different rules' or being part of a club.

It's more about there being a better way to deal with things. As a Christian you are accountable to Christ for the way you behave and the things you say.

The 'normal' way to deal with things is to head straight for court. There's a less harsh way, a way that things may be resolved so that all parties will be edified and happier. That's all I was saying.

Maybe I should have explained. I forgot you have to explain. Too many misunderstandings surrounding church. My remark was more aimed at the Christians amongst us. I believe there are some.

*sigh*

A simple sentence and I end up all defensive. I'm not annoyed at anyone, apart from myself :))

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soyunperdedorsoyunperdedor pro
http://soyunperdedor.blog.co.uk
09/05/08 @ 13:12

You don't have to explain. A little understanding on someone's behalf was needed, that's all. Instead, you got a an ignorant rant...

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subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 13:29

No worries I'm used to it but I felt I should have explained a bit better. After all, if no-one corrects misunderstandings, ignorance reigns.

xxx

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soyunperdedorsoyunperdedor pro
http://soyunperdedor.blog.co.uk
09/05/08 @ 13:37

True but the 'dandy' gentleman's response still pissed me off anyway :D

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subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 13:38

He's the most anti-christian person you're ever likely to meet :))

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TheHighwaymanTheHighwayman pro
10/05/08 @ 20:08

Not "anti-christian" - that suggests that I dislike certain people merely because they are christian. I don't dislike you, for instance (so I find it very odd that you should say such a thing).

However, I find all religions at best barking mad and at worst extremely dangerous.

BTW - I finished "The God Delusion" today. It is without doubt my favourite non-fiction book of all time up until now. I'll do you a deal subby - If you read that book and are still not convinced - I'll stop trying to convince you - after all there is no way I could ever enlighten anyone as eloquently as Mr Dawkins.

D'oh! I just remembered - I promised myself I'd read the bible - all of it - both testaments i.e. the old one with the nasy spiteful vengeful god, and the new one with god 2.0 or is it 1.3 *snigger* - and not just the sections that were forced on us as children (which is tantamount to child abuse). Don't tell me how it ends!

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subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
10/05/08 @ 20:35

I'd just like to be able to say something about my choices without being ripped to shreds. I wasn't preaching, you've gotta admit - I never have!

Would be nice not to be constantly talked to like I'm thick.

Why do non-christians consider themselves so superior? Stop trying to convert me :P

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DominicGeeDominicGee [Member]
14/05/08 @ 12:25

it may depress you to learn that Dawkins is preaching to the choir in his book - that is nobody who is happy with their beliefs are going to buy and read it, only those who already don't believe and want somebody to neatly round off their arguments in a nice big book.

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TheHighwaymanTheHighwayman pro
15/05/08 @ 13:33

You are correct! It does depress me.

"want somebody to neatly round off their arguments in a nice big book". Well he's definitely done a better job of it than I could and yes - he uses "arguments" not fairy stories or "interpretations" of them.

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DominicGeeDominicGee [Member]
14/05/08 @ 12:31

"I promised myself I'd read the bible - all of it - both testaments i.e. the old one with the nasy spiteful vengeful god, and the new one with god 2.0 or is it 1.3 *snigger* - and not just the sections that were forced on us as children (which is tantamount to child abuse)."

Oh dear, Christians are child-abusers. I suppose you will 'force' your world view on your own kids too, telling them that there is no God and that they are spawn of two chemical reactions between their father and mother and eventually they will die after which their body is eaten by worms and they cease to exist in a way that is impossible to imagine.

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TheHighwaymanTheHighwayman pro
15/05/08 @ 13:26

Well first of all I wouldn't have any kids. If I do end up being responsible for a kid again I don't think I'd tell them "THERE IS NO GOD AND THAT'S THAT". I didn't have to last time - he figured it out for himself and that is exactly what I would want for any kid.

Sorry to be all scientific and throwing these horrible facts in your face but "two chemical reactions" - well I certainly wouldn't tell them nonsense like that and I don't think I'd go into a great deal of detail (unless they asked) regarding the actual process. Why shouldn't kids be told the truth?

"eaten by worms" - funny as f*ck especially as that has a religious ring to it & I would certainly not try to frighten a child with anything like that. Although, once again if asked by the child something specific like "what will happen to Gran's body after she's been in her coffin in the ground for a while" - I guess, depending on the age of the child, my answer might have worms in their somewhere.

I can see why it could be advantageous for religious parents to tell a child that they might go to hell if they don't behave themselves.

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soyunperdedorsoyunperdedor pro
http://soyunperdedor.blog.co.uk
15/05/08 @ 14:17

Oh good grief he's off again!

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TheHighwaymanTheHighwayman pro
10/05/08 @ 20:17

"an ignorant rant" - I thought it was quite a well informed rant.

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subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
10/05/08 @ 20:38

I think she means ignorant cos you dissed my beliefs so emphatically! You can respect other people's right to beliefs without believing them yourself, y'know!

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TheHighwaymanTheHighwayman pro
10/05/08 @ 20:45

I have a right to believe there are fairies at the bottom of the garden but it doesn't make it true. I wouldn't want anyone to respect that belief - I'd want them to call the doctor!

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soyunperdedorsoyunperdedor pro
http://soyunperdedor.blog.co.uk
10/05/08 @ 23:35

Well obviously YOU did.

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TheHighwaymanTheHighwayman pro
11/05/08 @ 01:50

please - if you're going to try to take me on - be a bit more clever than that.

The reasons I am well informed is (apart from the fact that I am a rational human being) I am subville's brother and have known her for - ahem - a number of years. No I don't mean some weird supernatural bullshit - I actually am the real physical result of my biological father's genes combining with my mother's genes to produce me & subville.

My rant is also well informed and not ignorant because even though much of my recent findings come from the academic texts quoted by Richard Dawkins, I assume them to be true representations. I can't imagine why an atheist would choose to lie - the reasons for a religious person to lie (chiefly to themselves) are numerous.

I will now tranfer my truthful messages to my own blog.

I still need to buy a bible - I take it I find it under fiction.

Actually - I am soooo looking forward to reading it

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soyunperdedorsoyunperdedor pro
http://soyunperdedor.blog.co.uk
11/05/08 @ 20:28

I wasn't trying to take you on. I was incredibly drunk and happy because it was my birthday. I am far cleverer than you. That's my overblown belief and I'm sticking to it.

I am aware that you are her brother. I do not need a lesson in genetics to explain how that works either.

The mere fact that you refer to what you said as a rant speaks volumes to me.

Richard Dawkins = :yawn: He is as entitled to his beliefs as Christians are entitled to their's. You seem to view his work as truth and convincing and something to believe in. How is this any different to religious conviction in the Bible?

Yes - buy a Bible. After you have read some of it, you can at least say that you are presenting your conviction and views as balanced, after taking into account what the other side has to say.

No, I am not religious in any way. No, I do not call myself athiest or agnostic or anything like that. Religion does not form part of my life except in my belief that a grown woman can believe what the hell she likes without being so ridiculously questioned by her own brother who believes Richard Dawkins speaks sense.

Bye bye now.

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TheHighwaymanTheHighwayman pro
11/05/08 @ 21:06

"You seem to view his work as truth and convincing and something to believe in" - yes I do believe facts backed up by evidence.

"How is this any different to religious conviction in the Bible?" - isn't that blindingly obvious? You explicitly require "faith" to have religious conviction. Science does not afford such laziness.

"Yes - buy a Bible. After you have read some of it, you can at least say that you are presenting your conviction and views as balanced, after taking into account what the other side has to say" - ahem! - I was brought up as a christian by my misguided mother - mostly protestant (I don't think the minister guy liked me very much - always chipping in my tuppence worth - don't think "the lord move in mysterious ways was going to cut it with me) - and a brief stint as a mormon. Now those f*ckwits really are either completely barking or, as I strongly suspect, they don't believe their own b*llsh*t.

"No, I am not religious in any way. No, I do not call myself athiest or agnostic or anything like that." This is a very confusing statement - I guess it could mean that you believe in a god but don't follow a religion - which would be kind of odd as you would have had to get the god idea from somewhere.

"without being so ridiculously questioned by her own brother" - I half agree with you on this point. The questioning isn't ridiculous in itself, but it is, in this case, pointless. I seriously doubt I will ever manage to convince any religious person that there is no god - if only that trick could be pulled off en-masse in the States where apparently around 50% of them (including the Pres) believe the earth has only been around for a few thousand years etc. That thought scares the sh*t out of me!

Oh look - sorry if I'm being hostile - this is a subject that gets my blood boiling.

"I was incredibly drunk and happy because it was my birthday"

oops! Hope you had a good time.

"I am far cleverer than you. That's my overblown belief and I'm sticking to it" - yes you probably are - I have the I.Q. of a fencepost.

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soyunperdedorsoyunperdedor pro
http://soyunperdedor.blog.co.uk
11/05/08 @ 21:12

"I seriously doubt I will ever manage to convince any religious person that there is no god"

Why try at all?

"it could mean that you believe in a god but don't follow a religion - which would be kind of odd as you would have had to get the god idea from somewhere"

Hmm yes I think I heard of God somewhere. Name rings a bell. No I don't believe in god/gods, nor do I not believe in them. Whether I need to or not simply doesn't factor into my life. I don't see the point in campaigning either way. Just let people get on with what they want to believe, whatever that might be.

Enough now, please.

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TheHighwaymanTheHighwayman pro
11/05/08 @ 21:28

"Just let people get on with what they want to believe, whatever that might be" - I would feel I was being irresponsible. I don't like religion causing people to believe it's their duty to murder doctors who perform abortions or perhaps to blow themselves up on a London bus. I'm not suggesting my sis would ever do such a crazy thing but it is religious beliefs that foster the conditions necessary for these atrocities.

OK - I promise - even if you say something that really annoys me - I won't respond here.

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soyunperdedorsoyunperdedor pro
http://soyunperdedor.blog.co.uk
11/05/08 @ 21:31

You're not going to convince anyone who believes enough to blow themselves up, and that's that. Conviction like that is disproportionate to this entire conversation. Now if you'll excuse me dear sir, I have some wine to quaff and Indiana Jones to lust over.

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scoobydoofusscoobydoofus pro
09/05/08 @ 14:02

*whoosh*

*hug*

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subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 14:10

Thanks, Scoob :>> xxx

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kevinwilsonkevinwilson pro
09/05/08 @ 14:18

oh don't worry - it's really difficult to explain complicated stuff on blog or email
especially to idiots.

xx

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subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 14:22

Naah, it wasn't an idiot. Just someone with very strong opinions. In fact it wasn't just one particular thing. I made a small comment, a question, and it sparked quite a lot of other comments. It is difficult to explain stuff when no-one has any background knowledge of the subject :yes:

xxx

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TheHighwaymanTheHighwayman pro
11/05/08 @ 03:02

"complicated stuff" - i don't think so - and yes I am calling you an idiot.

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RunDontWalkRunDontWalk pro
http://menomamauk.blog.co.uk
09/05/08 @ 14:48

Who the hell has been bothering you?

The nerve of him...

Hugs and kisses, hunny

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subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 14:49

It's ok. Honestly.

Just thought I'd post a statement rather than get into an argument.

Thanks, Kelly xxxxx

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RunDontWalkRunDontWalk pro
http://menomamauk.blog.co.uk
09/05/08 @ 14:51

Okay sweetheart.

I know you can resolve your own battles.

I am protective of you.

Can't help myself to be any other way....

hugs and kisses

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subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 14:53

Don't change :>> *hug* xxxx

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jackfrostjackfrost pro
09/05/08 @ 16:15

Any help????

http://www.abpnews.com/3167.article

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subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 19:02

Yes! A great help, Jack :D

Thank you very much xxx

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HektorRevisitedHektorRevisited [Member]
http://thewindhover.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 16:46

People who don't believe in God seem quite fervent in their belief that there is no God. Is non-belief become a religion in itself?

Don't let them get you down (and they know who they are).

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subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 19:08

The amount of times I've been hassled about God, when I've really not been trying to preach or anything, is ridiculous. Folk love to spell out where I'm going wrong for daring to have a different belief than them. I'm just as bad for saying 'heathen' in a derogatory way (about myself) - a little more thought is needed all round.

*respect* Hekkie xxx

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TheHighwaymanTheHighwayman pro
12/05/08 @ 01:31

"them", "they" - excellent - it's not just me then?

NO respect *heckle*

"When someone is personally deluded it is called madness - when many people suffer the same delusion it is called a religion". I can't remember who said it and I might even be misquoting them but I stand by it anyway.

And I am not trying to bring anyone down (man - say it like Nigel Planer's character "Neil" from "The Young Ones") - I am attempting (with absolutely no success!) to do exactly the opposite! It is very obvious to me that someone I care for dearly suffers so much and the reason they do is always the same. I can see another deal here in the making - I'll give up booze (the main reason for me being fucked up) if subs reads Richard's book (it will be delivered soon - I'm getting a bit skint but this is important) - some of it is a bit weird - memes for instance - I don't think he's fully developed this theory and I get the feeling he is almost apologetic about that.

Oh b*gger I'm going on a bit AGAIN - I'll put some anti-religious stuff on my own blog shortly - I welcome anyone to join the discussion - although I get the feeling it will only be me and K willing to discuss - for fear of eternal damnation which is presumably what you think your nice god guy has in store for me!

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DominicGeeDominicGee [Member]
14/05/08 @ 12:48

it strikes me that there is an awful arrogance pervading the conviction that there is no God. Firtly by calling everyone deluded, secondly by dismissing all arguments in favour of belief (let alone arguments in favour of God's existence) and thirdly by apparently skimming over religious and in particular Christian history as a series of religious conflicts and oppressions. The western world despite it's flaws has built a fantastic civilisation with Christianity as it's back-bone. The truly terrible things we whites have committed have not been in the name of religions, just to name a few: WW1, WW2, the Holocaust, every war fought between two European countries, MOST of the German reformation, The English Reformation, the American Civil War, Slavery, prostitution, organised crime.
Let's have a look at some of the things that Christian people have done that HAS helped our development:
abolishing child labour, hospitals, schools, hospices, refuges, abolishing slavery, fighting communism.
Of course, each of these events can be argued over, the point is from an historical perspective do not presuem that you can with a mere flick of the wrist write off a whole swath of history and the millions who are living and who have died by saying that they are merely deluded. The first rule of arguing is not to insult your opponent.

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TheHighwaymanTheHighwayman pro
15/05/08 @ 14:00

"Firtly by calling everyone deluded" - OK - for the sake of argument... IF there is no god THEN all people who believe in him ARE deluded.

"secondly by dismissing all arguments in favour of belief (let alone arguments in favour of God's existence)" - show me just one that's actually backed up with evidence.

"Of course, each of these events can be argued over, the point is from an historical perspective do not presuem that you can with a mere flick of the wrist write off a whole swath of history and the millions who are living and who have died by saying that they are merely deluded" - that's a bit of a leap. I've already explained why I think anyone who believes in a god is deluded. I don't know how you manged to conjure all that other stuff up - perhaps you did it "with a mere flick of the wrist" (no idea what you meant by that but I know what I mean!).

"we whites" - I'm not quite sure what to make of this remark

"Let's have a look at some of the things that Christian people have done that HAS helped our development:
abolishing child labour, hospitals, schools, hospices, refuges, abolishing slavery, fighting communism"

Christianity was not necessary for any of this and what on earth is "fighting communism" doing on your wee list?

"The first rule of arguing is not to insult your opponent" - is this a religious rule? I would have thought if there were any rules on argument then the 1st one should be base your argument in fact.

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DominicGeeDominicGee [Member]
15/05/08 @ 14:13

ok, i don't mind having this debate, but let's not do it here. I assume that like me sometimes you really want to talk about this, and sometimes you just can't be arsed. We'll meet again i'm sure.

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sminchinsminchin pro
09/05/08 @ 19:45

We had a talk the other Sunday by the author of a book called 'I don't have enough faith to be an atheist', he made some very good points about a certain author and his beliefs
I totally have your back darlin'. I know how hard it can be when you have to justify yourself and your beliefs
x

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subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 20:58

It does bug me when people assume stuff that you haven't said or interpret the Bible in a skewed way. Like I'm totally thick and can't think for myself! Ah well, it's not the first time and it won't be the last :)

Thanks, Sare xxx

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sminchinsminchin pro
09/05/08 @ 21:37

Unfortunately, a lot of people who are anti-Christian or at least anti-Bible know precious little about what they're complaining about!
Of course you can think for yourself and make your own decisions, being a Christian doesn't make you some kind of sheep
You're welcome :)
x

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faffajanefaffajane pro
http://faffajane.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 20:40

Hun so sorry. I know how difficult it is, to follow ones beliefs and to do what is right in the end.

Didn't mean to offend if I did or upset you honestly.

Huge hugs

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 20:51

No, I wasn't particularly offended by anyone's comment. It was more the continuous trickle of misunderstandings.

Straw/camel's back kinda thing. It became the main focus and I hadn't explained why it would be a reason to not go to court.

No worries *hugs* xxx

| Show this thread |
faffajanefaffajane pro
http://faffajane.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 20:56

Oh good because I would hate it if I had upset you:)

I know how difficult these things are hun.

hugs xxxxxxxx

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rithompsonrithompson [Member]
http://random-veryrandom.blog.co.uk
09/05/08 @ 21:19

Who's got you started off on this rant? :??:

TentativeplotfinderTentativeplotfinder [Member]
09/05/08 @ 23:11

Sorry....

| Show this thread
subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 23:16

Nothing to be sorry for *hug* xxx

| Show this thread |
TentativeplotfinderTentativeplotfinder [Member]
09/05/08 @ 23:38

Oh... OK...thank you... but I was having a write before I think carefully moment, I know!

| Show this thread |
subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 23:45

I read the link that Jack Frost commented, and the 'agreeing a covenant with someone to be accountable' rings true. So I have my answer :)

Dinna worry x

| Show this thread |
TentativeplotfinderTentativeplotfinder [Member]
09/05/08 @ 23:54

I shall take myself off to sleep instead... night, night!

| Show this thread |
subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
09/05/08 @ 23:56

Sleep well. Please don't worry about this stuff, it's small fish. You need a clear mind and peaceful heart *hug* xx

| Show this thread |
TentativeplotfinderTentativeplotfinder [Member]
10/05/08 @ 15:16

Hugs..

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Andy [Visitor]
http://www.devon-photography.co.uk
10/05/08 @ 21:30

The most ironic thing is that atheism is potentially the most fervent of religions.

Most atheists like to think of themselves as 'anti-religious' but they're merely the opposite side of the religion coin.

The difference is most religions believe in something, athiests believe in nothing, but normally with just as much passion.

Belief, an attempt to convert others, the general unshaking knowledge they have all the answers... One coin, two sides.

| Show this thread
subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
10/05/08 @ 22:09

That's the bit that always puzzles me. Anti-religious folk tell me that Christians are always trying to ram their beliefs down people's throats but they sit there (stand there shouting at me) going on and on and on and ariston ...

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JuzzzyJuzzzy pro
http://juzzzy.blog.co.uk
11/05/08 @ 11:17

Have... you... gone...?

| Show this thread |
subvillesubville pro
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
11/05/08 @ 11:53

He hasn't. Soz I'm answering in case he doesn't look on here :))

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